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Name: Tony Langdon
Email: tlang@freeway.apana.org.au
Comments:
Please add your insights here, it will help people to understand us better.

Name: Amanda
Email: nightsng@netcom.com
Comments:
The following is the text of my document "Being a Spatial Thinker" which is on my website at: http://aeleis.autistics.org/aeleis/spatial.html I differentiate visual and spatial because it is not tied to a specific sense. Here is the text: Being a Spatial Thinker I was talking to someone and he said my abilities seemed surprisingly even across verbal and mathematical areas. he thought abilities in both areas would atrophy if there was no large focus in one. I thought maybe he was right, but then that also my verbal abilities and mathematical abilities are extremely varied within themselves. On one test I came out almost equally a visual auditory and kinesthetic learner. On another, I come out evenly distributed across several modes of inteligence, excluding "interpersonal" which I am low in. Furthermore, I score very high in most of these areas. This is unusual for a "normal" person, let alone someone on the autism spectrum. I think my spatial abilities are extremely pronounced, and govern what my abilities are in other areas. Spatial abilities are not tied to any one sense, and are an internal way of functioning. The person I talked to, while in the process of gaining insight about himself (I think), gave me, or helped me to, a large degree of insight into my own processes. This may or may not have been his intent, but I thank him for it because now many things finally make sense. Spatial thinking is a way of organising things in my head. It is not visual (though some people think visual and spatial are synonymous) but involves connections between things in a format like 3-dimensional or more-dimensional space. Sometimes there is no connection but just a spatial relation. This is not the only level of thought for me, because there is another level of thought which does not involve representation of anything. However, this is my form of symbolic thought. I do not think with language. Sometimes I add in pictures, sounds, smells, and other sensory things to each "point" or "area" of spatial thought in my head, but these things are not necessary, but enhance it. My senses have always sent me information that is to some degree or another, garbled. Particularly, this is true for vision, hearing, and touch, with vision and hearing being the worst. However, I can count on one hand the number of times I have gotten lost in my life. I talked to someone once who told me that by people's eye movements and speech patterns he could tell whether someone was a visual, auditory, or kinesthetic learner. I said, "What if they're equal in all three?" He said this was impossible. They say that a visual learner says, "I see what you mean." An auditory learner would say "I hear what you mean." A kinesthetic learner would say, "I feel what you mean." This is oversimplified, but the idea is that people use language idioms based on what kind of learner and thinker they are. I use many of those idioms, crossing all the senses. Depending on which I am using at the time, people make assumptions. It would be more helpful, in my case, to look at the nature of idioms I use to describe things in a non-sensory way. I talk about things being "on different levels." Some things are "surface" levels. I want to know what is "behind" something. Things are "over" things and "under" things and "through" things. I describe many things in terms of geometric shapes and concepts. This, for me, is constant, not fluctuating like my use of sensory idiom. Sometimes, but not always, my own spatial idioms clash with the spatial idioms other people are used to. People often interpret my spatial idioms in terms of their own preferred sense. My brother, before realising what he had said, said, "Well visual and spatial are the same thing!" Some people automatically associate spatial idioms with visual things, some with auditory things, and others with kinesthetic things. I think my dog would associate spatial things with olfactory/gustatory (smell/taste) things. I experience spatial representations in all senses, but most often in none. My mathematical and verbal abilities are divided along the line of "spatial" and "non-spatial", not "mathematical" and "verbal". There are some words I have immense difficulty in remembering the meaning of. These are ones that, for whatever reason, I cannot find a lasting spatial representation for. These are words like "ontology" and many other words I have encountered in philosophy class. If I can "spatial-ise" them then I can use them, and if I cannot spatial-ise them I have a lot of trouble. Mathematics is similar. Internal geometric visualisation is very fun for me, and I like to do it. I have been fascinated by the concepts of infinities, number lines, geometric shapes, multiple dimensions of various kinds, and other spatial things. These things have always seemed "intuitive" and natural to me, and I like to play with them as if they are a game. However, other areas of math, some considered "simpler", are things that have made me feel like I was beating my head up against the wall. These things I have had to learn more painstakingly and slowly, and am now deliberately learning them in order to be able to describe the things I do spatially. One of the things I work the hardest at is learning to "catch up" my non-spatially-related skills to my spatially-related skills. This is because some of the non-spatially-related ones are considered essential. Also my sensory skills are very weak in some areas, and I have to work at integrating them with my spatial skills in order to function. The symbolic level of representation inside my mind is like a big, dark (non-visual) collection of things in a multi-dimensional (sometimes 2, sometimes 3, sometimes, 4, etc) space. These things have qualitative and quantitative differences within them. I have spatial "maps" of everything I do, from the internal workings of my mind to the external world. My map of my neighbourhood, to use an example of something that many people use maps for, contains no "pictures" of houses. It is "dark" -- no pictures -- and contains things in space. I can, because of this, go almost anywhere and be able to find my way back. If I am focussed enough, I can tell where the stars are in the daytime. I believe this is my "spatial sense" kicking in. I have several internal spatial maps of my mind, which vary according to situation. Some of them involve fractals, and others involve layers of spherical things. There is the "Russian Nesting Doll" model, with the innermost "doll" being made of something very different than the layers on top of it. There is the "cave" model where Really Me lives far back in a cave, which is governed entirely by spatial rules and no others, with a passage at the front leading to the outside world. I have a visual picture representation of this in my art section. These models are all manifestations of one model that I have. However, it does not translate easily into a three-dimensional and linguistic representation. It is almost like a four-dimensional (or more!) object intersecting with three-dimensional space. The same thing, with different cross-sections, can appear as a torus ("doughnut"), a sphere, or many other things. There are many things it can appear as, especially, if it is not a regular shape such as a hypersphere or hypercube. So any description I give is the intersection between my thought and the linguistic and three-dimension-spatial mode of communication that I have available. My map of time is a spatial thing too. It is a big curving thing that wraps around the front of my head and turns back, and wraps around itself many times. It is difficult to describe easily, but it is similar to my "mental numberlines." I find a lot of beauty in spatial things. I do not mean, as much, spatial things like the layout of a room. I mean spatial things that are not representable in a sensory context. Some of the most rewarding at the moment are mathematical concepts. These are things I can "visualise" and which I really enjoy (I think that when I say "visualise" I often mean "spatialise", or to represent spatially in my head, not visually). I am learning the beginnings of discrete mathematics right now and am really enjoying it because of the spatial way it connects together. In the same way, I enjoy logic, certain kinds of wordplay, and lying still with my eyes closed or otherwise "turned off" with a spatial map of the world all around me. I think maybe my spatial skills are well-developed somehow because of the fact that my sensory input is not as reliable as most people's. So these skills have developed independently, although relatedly, to my sensory skills. They have helped me compensate, also, for sensory problems by providing a framework within which I can fit the "pieces" of sensory information that filter through. My senses of smell/taste are most reliable, followed by touch, hearing, and sight. Touch, hearing, and sight alternate in reliability depending on how I am doing that day. Many smells feel spatial to me, possibly because smell is more comfortable to me. However, there are no tests for "olfactory learners". I learn pretty much equally well in visual, auditory, and kinesthetic ways, but I prefer to have a combination of the three so if one sense isn't working well then the others can "pick it up" for me and insert it into my spatial map. The World Wide Web, by the way, is perfect for me, because it is a spatial thing. I really like having a map of my website in my head, and I like putting things here because I can make an external but still spatial structure to put things I have written, drawn, et cetera, in. I have a spatial map of this website in my head, and I enjoy it. I also have spatial maps of other things on the Web, and things inside the Internet and computers in general, unrelated to the Web. Sometimes I feel like I can spatially map the internal workings of a computer, to varying degrees. This, like all things I write, is a linguistic approximation of a phenomenon that makes a whole lot more sense firsthand. Also, the spatial level is one level of thought for me. I am right now interacting with the keyboard in a spatial-linguistic way. Linguistic things are not natural to me. Spatial things are more natural, and the thing that is most natural is non-symbolic whatsoever. My thought as I call "thought" is spatial, with sensory stuff added in. Then, there is experience, and something beyond/before that, which is something that it becomes difficult to talk about because of its non-symbolic nature, and the symbolic nature of language.

Name: M Lance
Email: lances@mpx.com.au
Comments:
Can any programs help for adult autistic people

Name: Amanda Baggs
Email: autelf@mindspring.com
Comments:
An update to the above is that the page is now at http://aeleis.autistics.org/autism/spatial.html

Name: Cinamon
Email: suthbunny4@aol.com
Comments:
I have read all that you have written and I find it facinating. my daughter is autistic and four. she is in discrete trial training. I would love to hear your insight on this type of therapy and how you feel about it.

Name: Bobbie
Email: Klisenbauer
Comments:
It wasn't until a few years into college, in my early 40's, after learning that I had ADD, and reading Driven to Distraction that I realized people had been making comments about my weirdness my entire life! For some reason, this hit me like a thunderbolt. I went through a certain amount of grieving and sorrow for the inner misunderstood and "battered" child. ADD frequently accompanies Asperger Syndrome. There is so much to say and so little space. From very young, I avoided people and went off by myself. Still, conversation is often difficult for me, yet words flow easily in writing, as well as a photographic memory for how things are spelled. I wear mainly plain colors because prints, plaids, etc. are too "busy" or stimulating. I rarely listen to music because it's often irritating after a few moments. I need spaces in between tasks in order to gather my thoughts. I'm happiest when gardening or with my animals. I'm getting a master's degree in June. School has been an oasis, as I am able to basically be alone in a crowd and enjoy research, etc. Self-medicated for years with beer, but stopped on my own 9 years ago; didn't go to A.A. cuz I don't enjoy being around people all that much. It's not that I dislike people, but that I find it exhausting to engage in either small-talk or superficialities that most people seem to engage in. I found it extremely refreshing to be among some ethnic groups and many people with disabilities, as they seem to be more "real." Have yet to find someone with Asperger's, or in any scientific journal where it explains the problems I have encountered with speaking. It's not that I am unable to articulate; it's more a case of thinking too broadly or too slowly and by the time the thought or idea is formed in my mind, it's too late to put it out in words. I also find that speaking with people other than my own family or someone with whom I am well acquainted or simply feel comfortable with, that their simple presence is a distraction that prevents me from thinking clearly enough to have a verbal conversation. This becomes a real problem in times of emotionality! (anger, fear, etc.) I have noticed, however, that every once in a while, not often, if something really pisses me off (no other way to put it,) and adrenalin flows, that sometimes the words just flow out with ease. The problem with being quiet most of the time is that others assume that you're, a) shy, or b) stupid. I have struggled with self-consciousness my entire life. It kicks up more sometimes than at other times, like arthritis. But usually I can get it to "sit, and stay!" Studying Buddhism has its advantages!:) Another thing that I havn't seen anyone write about is the fact that many with autism or asperger seem to be a bit on the ectomorphic side. That is, they all seem to be somewhat tall and thin. Has anyone else noticed this, or is it simply that I havn't seen enough people with this condition? (I would have separated these thoughts with paragraphs, but didn't realize how much space I'd have to write in at the beginning.) When I look back at my childhood, I realize that either every child has profound thoughts which they are just unable to yet express, or that I was unusual in what I thought about as a 6 year old. I still recall having very analytical thoughts about people and life. I recall that, at age 12, having gone to visit my father across the country, I'd gone out to dinner with a boy. Upon our return, we were sitting with my father, who was always very concerned with social protocol. The boy said, "Boy! I'm stuffed!" My immediate thought was something like: being stuffed isn't good, or it's not a comfortable feeling. Not wanting him to think that I was uncomfortable too, but had, indeed, enjoyed myself, I responded with, "I'm not!" My father looked at me with disapproval and with some embarrassment, said my name as if to say, "That's not nice." I was totally confused. I pondered on my dad's reaction for days, like a Zen koan. Finally, somehow, I figured out that the polite thing to do would have been to (lie) and say that I was also stuffed (or satiated), rather than implying that the boy was cheap and hadn't bought me enough to eat. People make things so complicated! There was a certain degree of nievete throughout my youth which was frequently exploited. Looking back, I see it as an innocence of a "stranger in a strange land."

Name: Bobbie
Email: Klisenbauer@aol.com
Comments:
My comment is under same name, but forgot to put in email address.

Name: Jutta
Email: jreidlinger@yahoo.co.uk
Comments:
I was fascinated to see the comment about lack of short-term memory on Tony's page. Anybody watching me being introduced to 1 or 2 people will be sure I have the same problem. However, what's really happening is: I am introduced to someone I don't know in a professional situation. So I have to think about eye contact and posture (I work as an IT consultant and try to appear being "keen and eager"), making the right "polite noises" - you get the picture... By the time I hear the name my brain is already on information overload and a name goes in through one ear and out of the other without touching the brain in the middle. At home on my own I have an excellent short-term memory. It simply seems to be right at the bottom of priorities for available brain power. I have similar issues with orientation: On a new project I hardly ever find my way out of the building, while this is hardly ever a problem, if I work with a team I already know in an unfamiliar building.

 

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