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Transcript 137B — Dealing with the Occult
HC: Good evening. Welcome to Open Forum.
CALLER: Hi. I was listening to your program, and I'm kind of confused now. I'm a born again Christian, and I praise the Lord for that. In my past I was involved with a Satanic priest. And after I left him, starting last year at Christmas, all kinds of really weird things started happening to me. And it was to the point where I was going into mental telepathy, and all the occult things.
But anyway, I finally got into this one church. And this pastor helped me out. And he does not believe in exorcisms. I grant that you shouldn't dwell on demons. You should, you know, go out and witness. But with me, I couldn't say Jesus' name, I couldn't say the blood of Jesus, or anything like that. I was home alone with my two children, and I had to learn how to say, "In Jesus' name, I rebuke you, Satan," in order to have that whole feeling go away from me.
So I don't understand when you say that we don't have the power to do that, because it worked for me.
HC: I don't know what is happening in your life. You're really raising a question of what your relationship to Satan really is, and what your relationship to Christ is. But you must remember this, that the focal point of your life has been on Satan.
Are you troubled at all by these things now?
CALLER: No. I love the Lord. He's taken care of my life so fantastically that I have every minute of my life yet to praise Him.
HC: Well, when were you rebuking Satan then? Before you were saved or after you were saved?
CALLER: Before, way before, and this is what led me to this one church, and to this pastor. And circumstances kind of made us move from one place to this place here. And I got my help from these people. And slowly, it took about three months for me to come out of it, but I did come out of it.
HC: Yes. Well, you see, Satan doesn't leave you alone because you were rebuking him in the Name of the Lord. That is not where your victory comes. Your victory comes only when you have been taken out of his dominion and transferred into the Kingdom of God's dear Son.
You see, before you are saved, you are a slave of Satan. You are owned by him. You are under his dominion. You are under his power. Now when you have placed your trust in Christ, when you have abandoned yourself to Him, so that you've become a born again believer, the Bible tells us that you have been taken out of the dominion of darkness. If you will read Colossians 1:13, it tells us that we have been transferred out of the dominion of darkness into the Kingdom of His dear Son.
And so, then Satan has no more power or control over us at all. So we don't have to rebuke him. We resist him. The Bible says, "Resist him, and he will flee from you." Now we resist him by paying no attention to him, by turning our backs on him.
You will find, even as a Christian, if you think about Satan, and you are looking for demonic activity, and are interested in the occult, and so on, you will find that you're going to be troubled by him, because he will enjoy that kind of attention. But if you simply refuse to give him any thought at all, he is a defeated foe, he has no power over you, and your thought life ought to be focused on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Now look. In Philippians 4 God puts it very significantly, in verse 8: "Finally, brethren, whatever is true (that's not Satan), whatever is honorable (that's not Satan), whatever is just (that's not Satan), whatever is pure (that's not Satan), whatever is lovely (that's not Satan, either), whatever is gracious (that's not Satan, either), if there is any excellence (that's not Satan, either), if there is anything worthy of praise (that's not Satan, either), think about these things."
In other words, to be a healthy Christian, we focus our attention on that which is true and honorable and just and pure. That's the Lord Jesus Christ. He's the essence of all of this. And His Word gives us the rules of the Kingdom that we have entered into. We earnestly study the Word of God that we might know more and more how to live for Him.
And we give Satan no thought at all. He is a defeated foe. Christ has taken care of him. He means nothing to us any longer. And he will only trouble us when we take our eyes off Christ, and when we leave ourselves wide open to temptation from the outside.
CALLER: Okay. Well, I agree with you on that. But I'm talking about before I ever knew the Lord. Don't you believe that if somebody is not born again, and they have been in contact with a lot of the occult, that there can be demon possession and oppression? It happened to me. That's why I'm questioning. It wasn't just in my head.
HC: Yes, of course. There is an occult world. And people who are unsaved can be used of Satan to demonstrate this occult power. There is ESP, there is supernatural activity. Satan does this all the time. And if a person is unsaved, a percentage of the unsaved population become involved in this. And they may not understand it. They may have a sense of power. They may even think that it's from God. But it's not from God. It's from Satan.
Now as an unsaved person, you can't rebuke Satan. He is your ruler. Even in the name of Christ you can't rebuke him. He is your ruler. You are a slave of his. You might think you're rebuking him, but you're not. Satan isn't worried about the Name of Christ. He'll use God's Name. He comes as an angel of light. Satan quoted Scripture. He quoted Scripture to Christ when he tempted Him in the wilderness.
You see, some people have some kind of superstitious idea that if we only plead the blood of Christ, or plead the name of Christ, or read some Scripture, then Satan is going to be in stark terror. Now that isn't so. Satan can use the name of Christ. He comes as an angel of light. He can use it as glibly.
Just think of Matthew 7, where it talks about the false prophets, who will stand at Judgment Day and declare to God, "Did we not do many mighty works in your name? Did we not cast out demons in your name?" And yet they were emissaries of Satan, because Jesus said, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." And so this idea of pleading the blood of Christ, or pleading the name of Christ, doesn't mean anything.
The way that Satan is overcome is by God Himself. And our task is to throw ourselves on the mercies of God and place our trust in Christ. Then He makes us born again. And He takes us out of Satan's kingdom. And Satan no longer has control over us.
Now I read from Jude. And you'll notice there that even the angel Michael, who is an archangel, one of the greatest of the angels, did not presume to rebuke Satan. Now that gives us an indication of out conduct. He said, "The Lord rebuke you." It is God who has to rebuke Satan. And God did rebuke Satan. God won a total victory over him on the cross, so that Satan no longer is able to hold us in his captivity. And the moment that you placed your trust in Christ and actually became born again, from that moment on, Satan no longer is your master. You didn't have to rebuke him at all. From that moment on, he never never can come at you with ESP or with anything at all.
CALLER: It didn't happen constantly, these weird things. I won't go into detail. I found out that's just not healthy at all for you. But God has the power to control Satan. Correct?
HC: Yes.
CALLER: So when God figured I'd had enough at that time, He kind of bound Satan for a while, until I was ready to surrender my whole life to Him. Do you think?
HC: Well, I don't know. I don't know what the background is. But all I know is that before you were saved, you were a slave of Satan, and he used you. And he managed to keep your attention in these ways whenever he wanted to do it. You were a slave of Satan.
But once you became born again, you see, the marvellous thing is that regardless of how deep we are in the clutches of Satan, regardless of how desperate our condition is, we can be saved. And so even though you might have been having ESP experiences, occult experiences, all day long, every day, even though you have been possessed by seven demons, none of this is a trouble at all for Christ, because when you place your trust in Him, then Satan has to leave you alone forever. He no longer has any power over you.
Now he will come at you through others, through literature that you might read, through friends that might try to tempt you. Through these means he will try to woo you away from the true Gospel. But he can never come into your mind. He can never come with an occult thought to you any longer. But one thing I would strongly caution you. And that is, forget about the past. Forget about what Satan has been in your life. And focus your attention on Christ. Don't talk about Satan anymore. When you tell your story about what Satan has done in your life, and all of this, without realizing it you are magnifying the power of Satan. You are eulogizing him. You are giving him lots of credit. And he rejoices.
Your task is to bring the Gospel, that is, to witness to the fact that you were a sinner, and you were under the power of Satan. Enough said. And Christ has come and has freed you. And now you want to talk about the Lord Jesus Christ and His marvellous new Kingdom that you have entered into. Okay?
CALLER: Okay. Thank you.
HC: Okay. Thank you for calling. Good night.
CALLER: Bye.