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Transcript 198C — The Validity of Church Authority
HC: Good evening. Welcome to Open Forum.
CALLER: I'm a new Christian, and I've got several problems that I'd like to ask about. I became saved, I guess, about nine months ago now. And I've had many many problems with regard to the organized church.
The problem is, Mr. Camping, that I realize that once I accepted Jesus Christ into my heart as my Savior, I was reborn and I was placed in Christ's church. He places people in His church Himself, the believers. But the Christian people who brought me to know Christ have really disillusioned me by the fact that, number one, they don't believe in organized churches. And I'd like to know just why. And we talked about it. And right now I just finished a Bible Study group at a church. And this Christian who brought me to the Lord says that the organized churches of today are trying to all get together into one unity. And he points out in the scriptures that this was ungodly. And I don't have the scriptures that he gave to me, but I'd just like to find out if there's truth in this or not. He says that Christmas is pagan and not Christian. And he said that God ordains ministers, that there's no need for ordained ministers, but that the Lord will take care of this. And I'm really confused.
HC: Actually, your question is facing this whole matter of the relationship of Christ to the church, and the church to the believer. Now deep in the heart of man there is this rebellion against authority. And this carries right into the church. Man does not want anyone over him. He wants to feel absolutely free, This is rebellion against authority.
The child, for example, rebels against the parent. He doesn't want to be under the thumb of the parent. The student rebels against the teacher, and the citizen frequently rebels against the government that rules over him. Well, the same is true in the church. That is, in the Christian world there are those who say, "Well, I'm not going to be under the authority of the church."
Now the Bible teaches that we are to be under that kind of authority. If you read I Corinthians 5 and 6, you will find that the apostle Paul, who was one of the rulers in the church, speaks of excommunication of someone who was in the church and who was living in a sinful way.
We find in Matthew 18 that Christ saying that if someone sins against you, tell it to that person alone, and then in the presence of two or three, and then tell it to the church. And if he won't hear the church, then let the church deal with him.
In I Timothy 5 it speaks about the elders who rule well. The whole thrust of the Bible is that we are under the authority of the church. We are to join a congregation and be under the authority of those who rule in that congregation.
Now it is true that there are congregations and denominations that are trying to form a one-world organization. Unfortunately, in trying to do this, they have to find the lowest common denominator in regard to spiritual matters, and so they end up with a doctrinal position that is nothing at all. It can't be the rigid teachings of the Bible itself, because no two denominations are that close on these things. And so it is doomed to failure.
But the fact that there are denominations and congregations that want to form a one-world church of some kind does not negate the fact that God has set up congregations. You read Revelation 2 and 3. God speaks there of the church at Ephesus, the church of Smyrna, the church of Laodicea. And they're all congregations, you see, that people belong to. The Bible says that we're not to neglect the assembling together of the saints.
Now insofar as the ordination of those who rule, the apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit told Timothy, "Don't be hasty in the laying on of hands." In other words, don't ordain men as elders or deacons in a hasty fashion. Make sure that they are properly qualified. And so a congregation appoints (or nominates or elects) those who are to rule over them, who have the highest possible spiritual qualifications. And these are outlined in I Timothy 3.
So anyone who teaches that we don't have to have a church, or we don't have to be under the authority of a church, is teaching contrary to the Bible.
CALLER: Okay, then what about this particular assembly? I'm not going to mention any names, because they don't have a name, evidently. But they gave me a tract, and it said that Christmas was pagan and not Christian. And this upset me for so long. Like I said, I've been a newborn babe in Christ for I guess about nine months now. And it really messed my Christmas up this year. It's really difficult for me. I can't understand.
HC: I would say this. The fact that they are teaching you error concerning the nature of the church means that you want to be very careful about anything that they teach you. They are not resting altogether on the Bible.
In connection with Christmas, you raised the question of the Biblical validity of Christmas. The Bible does not teach anywhere that we are to celebrate Christmas. There is no command of this kind. The fact is, the Bible does not even reveal the date of Christ's birth. We really don't have any idea of the exact day that Christ was born.
But we do know in the Bible that when Christ was born, the angels celebrated His birth, appearing to the shepherds and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men." We know that the shepherds recognized the birth of Christ by bringing the Baby Jesus homage, by coming to Him.
We know that the Magi came to Jesus with gold and frankincense and myrrh and rendered homage to Him, and recognized His birth in so doing. And so it certainly is not contrary to the Bible to have a day set aside on which we are going to recognize the birth of Christ. It is not called for in the Bible, nor is it prohibited in the Bible. It is not contrary to the Bible.
And I think that it's a wonderful thing that once a year we see such a high percentage of people pay homage to Christ, even though the majority of the people are unsaved. At that time of the year there is a call to look again at the Christ.
CALLER: Well, this is what I thought. Anything that glorifies Christ should be followed. But then, you know, when you keep getting slapped down about it, then you begin to wonder. And so if God's got a plan for my life, He must be telling me, because I'm so confused, that I've got to go somewhere else to get some answers.
HC: Frequently this is the case. We have to keep looking to find a body of believers that is closer to the truth.
CALLER: Right. Well, Mr. Camping, thank you very much.
HC: You're welcome. Thank you. Good night.