Home Topics Index Download
Transcript 220B — Handling Doctrinal Differences
HC: Good evening. Welcome to Open Forum.
CALLER: Hi. I'd like to address myself to the responsibilities of Christians who call in on your program. I think that it's a very unusual, unique program, and it's on a very good Christian radio station. But I think that people who call, especially Christians, should be aware that this isn't just a verbal boxing match for Christians who call in. And they should be aware that there is a possibility of non-Christians listening, or new Christians, who are still seeking to grow in the Lord, and can easily be confused by hassling back and forth among Christians.
I believe what I want to say is this. It is possible to deal strictly on a scriptural basis, using nothing but the scriptures, to prove your case in either direction. And this has been proven back and forth, through the centuries, by firmly devout born again Christians, arguing back and forth on several topics, and it's gotten to where they even have their own classifications now. One of these is eternal security, and another one is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and another one is the debate back and forth as to women's head covering worn in church, whether or not her hair constitutes the covering that God is talking about or if it's actually required that she wear an additional piece of material.
And since these questions have never really been resolved, and they have been argued back and forth by scholars who have studied a great deal more scripture than I have, and they have not been able to really convince the other side, I think that people who call in should offer their own opinions and their own viewpoints, to make sure that all sides of the question are heard. But I don't feel that anyone can assume that since he is basing his answer on the Bible, that he's got to be right and the other person has got to be wrong, because the Bible does say that there are mysteries that God has not chosen to answer, and we see with a clouded view.
And because of this, we have to rely on the Lord, we have to seek out the wisdom of Christ. And if something is particularly bothering a person, there is absolutely no reason that God is not able, through scripture and through preaching based on scripture, and through experience related to scripture, to be able to answer those questions for that person individually. But this does not mean , because he feels that God has given him an answer to his question, that he is suddenly set up as God's prophet, to pronounce to the world, "Hey! Here's the further interpretation and classification and answer to this particular shrouded question. "
And I feel that, if you'll permit me to offer a criticism of you, and it's meant to be constructive, I feel that since you do have a very strong knowledge of the Word, that when you answer people who call in, in your attitude of meaning to give them as clear and concise and as scripturally based an answer as you possibly can, you given it in a manner which does not seem to allow much room for the other person to be just as right, just as scripturally based.
And I feel that there have been times in the past where I have listened to your show, when I have disagreed with you, and I felt that you were making a statement that particularly bothered me, that you spoke matter-of-factly, as if it were a proven fact that eternal security was a Biblical concept. And when you do this, it doesn't allow any credibility or believability to anyone's arguing the other side on a scriptural basis. And I don't feel that I can dictate to you or tell you what the answers are in these particular cases. And I certainly wouldn't want to say, "You should avoid talking about them," because that would put a restriction on the honest openness that God wants us to employ when we explore the Word. God never condemns us for questioning.
HC: You know, I appreciate what you're saying very much. I would like to make a couple of comments. First of all, we want to pursue truth. We don't want to be content with half-truths, or we don't want to be content with that which is quite false.
Now if ten people have ten different opinions about a certain subject, at most only one of them can he true. And maybe none of them are. But at most, only one of them can be true. Now the desire of the born again believer that he find that truth. He doesn't want to end up being one of the nine, if indeed one of the ten has found truth. We want to be the one who has found the truth. This is the Biblical principle. Jesus says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life." When we come to Him, and as we open the Word more and more, we're going to find that truth.
Now if we had an ideal society, where everybody who called in was equally ready to rest on the Word of God, and would faithfully follow the rules of backing up their opinion or their understanding of the scriptures by the Bible itself, my, we would make progress toward truth all over the place. The fact that theologians have differed through the years doesn't say anything at all to me, because normally these theologians have never had a forum where they could talk with each other. Many of them did not have the advantage that we have today, of concordances, so that we can really know where every word is found in the Bible. Much of the theological undergirding that we have today was done in an earlier day, before all of this was available.
And so the ideal would be that everyone who called in would faithfully try to back up their ideas with scripture. And then we could continue to compare scripture with scripture and hone down the rough places, and modify, and gradually we could find the real truth. But we have a very serious problem that can't be avoided, and which militates against this possibility.
First of all, we have all kinds of people who call in, and they're free to call this because this is an open forum, who do not agree that the Bible alone is the divine Word of God. We have those who call in who are unsaved, and who don't recognize the Bible at all as the Word of God. We have people who belong to other gospels, gospels that start out with the Bible but then they have other books that they also believe are inspired, or are divine. We have people who call in, who are very certain and very confident that the Bible is the Word of God, but that their dreams and visions are also the Word of God.
And then again we have a great many people who are convinced that the Bible and it alone is the Word of God, but they have unwittingly listened to a number of theologians, or they have read some notes in the margin of their Bible. And they have come to believe that that, too, was the equivalent of the divine Word of God. Therefore, in any of these cases, they're operating from a different authority. It's like trying to argue a question of law in a court room. And one attorney is working from the law books of the State of California, or of the United States, and there's another attorney arguing for the other side, and he's using the law books of England, and trying to argue the case. It just becomes a very difficult kind of a thing.
CALLER: I want to say that if there are ten of us, who have ten completely different opinions, based on scripture now (I'm putting that note on it), that we've based it on our scriptural reading and on what we believe the Bible says, based only on what we believe the Bible says, prayerfully sought out (and I emphasize prayerfully), as to the specific meaning of the scripture, I have on many different occasions, in discussing a topic, realized, "Well, there is no specific verse in the Bible that says, 'Once saved, always saved.'" Now I'm just throwing that out as an example, because I don't want to get off on that topic.
There are areas of scripture that have been, for a long time, and I sincerely believe will be, until the second coming of Christ, when we see with perfect vision, that are just not going to have an absolute answer. And we are not going to be able, by all the talking in the world, or all the arguing, to determine what God specifically wants to reveal, because He has not chosen to reveal it yet. But really, on the basis of your being spiritually concerned, to show love for your brothers, we have more of a responsibility to be loving and to be understanding than we have to be right.
I do not have to take the idea that since you do not totally agree with me, and since I believe I'm more right than you are, that I therefore must hold you in lower respect, or treat you as if you have less of the revelation of God, or take this attitude that somehow it's me against you. I don't believe that we have to agree in order to love each other, or in order to exercise our Christian relationship toward each other. I believe that we can have meaningful discussions, and we can agree to disagree. And I believe that that's Biblically sound. You don't have, in order to love and have a respectful attitude toward each other, to totally agree.
HC: I am all for that, that we will never find total agreement, because we do not have a complete salvation. We have not received our regenerated bodies as yet, so our minds are not that clear. But, but, let us never be satisfied with half-truths, and let us make every attempt to be right. In other words, let us continue our study and continue our study.
Now there comes a time, and this is getting to the last part of your discussion, when it is time to be very dogmatic. I know that this doesn't come off well very frequently. But when we are quite certain that we know what God's Word says, and we're willing to stand up and be counted for what God's Word says (and remember that whatever is said is said in the presence of God almighty), we should not be afraid to say, "Thus sayeth the Lord."
Now there are those who operate by consensus. Or they operate from the standpoint of, "Well, let's not ruffle anybody's feathers," or whatever. Now I wonder how Jeremiah would have got along, if he had done that. Or I wonder how the apostle Paul would have got along, if he had done that. Or I wonder how Stephen would have gotten along if he had done that. You see, there is a time when we have to stand up and be counted.
Now when I feel that, before the Lord, I have done my homework, and I've compared scripture with scripture, a lot of times when I offer an answer on this program I do it fairly easily, fairly readily, as if anyone ought to know that. But it could well be that it's a product of several years of very careful study. Many of these questions I have struggled with and struggled with and struggled with. But now I am very confident of what the Bible says. Now the first thing that I try to do (and you can check me out on this) is that I will never quote another author. I'II never quote Luther or Calvin or Ironside or Walvoord, or anybody else, never, because they're human, and they can be wrong. That can never be the sourcebook of any kind.
I do try to back it up with scripture. And if I don't take time to back it up with scripture, I welcome calls where they will say, "Look. You said 'so and so.' Where do you read that in the Bible?" Now by the same token, I reserve the right to ask someone, "You said 'so and so.' Where did you read that in the Bible?"
And this is, again, the basis upon which we can build truth. My only hope is not that someone will trust me. That is no hope at all, because I'm not trustworthy. I'm not infallible. But I only hope that those who listen, who are serious about wanting to understand the Bible, will take down those verses and patiently read those verses, and see if they speak to the question at hand. And if they do, fine If they don't, well, they can form their own opinions as to how wrong I am. But at least they're going to go to the Bible to try to seek it out. And in this way we can make great progress.
If we simply agree to disagree, that's no progress. We'll never make progress that way. We'll only make progress if we will take a stand and back it up with scripture, and keep backing it up with scripture, and fact every verse in the Bible. One of the things I learned a long time ago (and it was a tough lesson for me to learn, but I had to learn it) is that if I hold a position, and I'm ready to say, "Thus sayeth the Lord," I better be ready to face every single verse in the Bible that might possibly relate to it. And if I find in my heart that I'm afraid to look up a verse that someone gives to me, then I know that my position is not nearly as strong as it ought to be.
And this frequently is the case? where people hold a position, and verses are offered, but they never face these verses. They simply pass over them. They pay no attention to them, or they fudge with them, or whatever. But we've got to face every verse, very honestly.
And I am convinced that we don't have to continue holding differences of opinion. I'm convinced that if a believer down in South Africa, or in Argentina, or in Alaska, or in Germany, who comes from whatever church, and you can name any church you want to name, if that person is a born again believer, and even those these people in these various lands know nothing about each other, have never met each other and have never read any common doctrinal books of any kind, if they will patiently go into the Word and let the Word be the final authority, and they all have equal incentive, they all have equal intellects, that is, God has blessed them with equal ability to discern the Word, they're going to come out with the same answers.
CALLER: I disagree with the view which I believe is your opinion, which you have just presented, that all people who put forth the same amount of effort, from anywhere in the world, who are basing it on the scriptures, can come to a unity in belief. We have to live by the light that the Lord has given us. We have to live by what we believe. That does not mean that we can say, "Thus sayeth the Lord" to the other person, because he can say it right around back, quoting other scriptures that can be interpreted in exactly the opposite way. And I do not believe that, as you state, we can all come to perfect knowledge, that we can all, by studying hard enough and having all the assets that we have now, even if we hooked up to computers, and so on, could reach a consensus of opinion. I really don't.
HC: You see, the Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Now the Bible does indicate that there are certain things that we can't understand. For example, there's no possible way that any of us can understand God, because God is infinite and our minds are finite. There is also a timing of the revelation of God's plan. Even as the Old Testament believers did not understand the Old Testament when it talked about the time when people would come into the body of Christ from all nations, but they did begin to understand this after Christ went to the cross, so there are some statements in the Bible concerning the return of Christ that we can't understand, because God has not chosen to reveal these things yet.
But the Bible is the Sword of the Spirit, and God promised that He would lead us into truth. And therefore we seriously have to continue to search for truth. And we must never be content with where we stand.
Now ideally we all start with a certain doctrinal position on any particular question. And maybe my doctrinal position is based upon 5 verses that I have read, which seem to synthesize into the position that I hold, and that I can confidently say, "This is what the Bible teaches."
But now someone else brings up a 6th verse, or in my continued study of the Bible I find another couple of verses that I have to reckon with, that speak to the same subject in some degree. And it may be necessary that I have to modify my earlier position. And so I want to be sure that I've got the grace to do that, to modify my position. And so now I've got my Number One position modified.
Then, a few months later, as I continue to search the Bible for whatever truth I can find, I find additional verses that I haven't taken into consideration. And now I may have to scrap my position, or I may have to make some further modifications. And if we'll all do that, if we'll all do that, be open to the Word, and continually hone away, and knock off the rough edges of whatever position we have, gradually, of course, we're going to work closer and closer to ultimate truth. And that is the goal that we have to shoot for.
And that's the joy, incidentally, of this kind of a program, because I listen to the callers, and I learn all the time, because they come up with insights, and I can put those into what I already know of the Bible. And I have to synthesize those ideas into everything else, if it's going to be truth.
Secondly, I can offer the verses that back up what I believe to be true, so that others can listen to them and reckon with these verses, as they seek truth on a particular question. And if we'll all do this, we're bound to come closer and closer together.
But the great problem is, and this is a psychological problem that we might not be aware of, that there are certain doctrinal positions we hold that we have learned from the margin of the Bible that we use, let's say, or we've learned it from a teacher or a preacher that we hold very dear, and who normally is fairly trustworthy. But of course he's not infallible, and yet we've trusted him all the way. And we hang on tenaciously to these extracurricular sources, these extrabiblical sources. And we don't realize that we're holding on to them.
And yet, if we're going to be honest with the Word and honest with ourselves, every time we read something or hear something from a place outside of the Word of God, we have to say, "Well, he may be right or he may be wrong.
And we have to be very consistent about that, and always be open to the Word. And then gradually we're going to come closer together.
CALLER: I agree with you one hundred percent. We have to realize that the other person may be right and may be wrong. We don't shoot our mouths off, saying, "Thus sayeth the Lord," after only basing it on five verses. And then later on we read another two that modify it, and another three later on, two months later, that completely reverses our opinion. Then we feel foolish, and realize that in the meantime we have not only offended other Christians who, in their concern for our beliefs, were making known their beliefs, but we have managed to alienate other people who would have been there to accept the Lord. And I feel that this radio program has a responsibility, and that each of the callers who call in has that same responsibility.
HC: Well, thank you for calling and sharing. Good night.